Having Rough Conversations Lately? Jefferson Fisher Has the Strategies That’ll Help You Turn Things Around
It started as a simple idea: In between hearings and depositions, trial lawyer Jefferson Fisher decided to film a few videos on his phone about how to communicate effectively. After years in the courtroom, he’d seen firsthand how arguments unfold, escalate, and, more importantly, how they can be diffused. Despite having no social media experience, he started posting practical advice on how to navigate conversations with clarity and calm.
His insights struck a chord. Millions of people around the world began tuning in, eager to learn how to listen better, argue less, and find common ground in their everyday interactions. Today, Jefferson is one of the most trusted voices on communication. He’s amassed a following of more than 10 million across multiple platforms, his videos have been played more than half a billion times, and he’s the host of the No. 1 podcast on communication.
Now, he’s distilled his expertise into a new book, The Next Conversation: Argue Less, Talk More, which is a guide for all of us looking to improve the way we talk to others—whether at work, at home, or in the world at large.
This week, The Sunday Paper asked Jefferson about the the power of intentional communication, how to navigate tricky conversations with self-assuredness and grace, and why the way we talk to each other matters now more than ever.
A CONVERSATION WITH JEFFERSON FISHER
In your forthcoming book, you teach readers what you know that can improve their next conversation. Can you briefly explain your three rules that can help build connection with ourselves and with others?
First, whatever you have to say, whether it’s your view, your point, your truth—say it with control. Manage your emotions so they don’t manage you.
Second, say it with confidence, because your tone and delivery matter as much as your words.
Third, say it to connect. When you focus on understanding the other person’s view, rather than winning the point, you get more of what you want.
What are some of the most common things that can lead to disconnection during communication?
Most people are familiar with the disconnection that happens when we interrupt, get defensive, or focus only on being right. But the larger problem is when we assume that what we say is exactly what is heard. The moment you fixate on your own perspective, you fall into the trap of trying to “win” the argument—and that’s where you lose.
Instead, approach tough conversations with something to learn, not something to prove. For example, instead of shouting, “That’s not what I said!” respond with, “What did you hear?”
You say that real communication begins when you identify the struggle, not the argument. Tell us more about that.
I teach that arguments aren’t something to win—they’re something to unravel. When conflict arises, it’s easy to get stuck in a tug-of-war, each person pulling in their own direction and tightening the knot. But real communication begins when you stop pulling and start understanding.
The key is to identify the core struggle beneath the argument, just like finding the knot in a rope. I’ll often even tell someone during a difficult conversation, “Help me find the knot.”
When you have the patience and discipline to do that, you stop fighting against the person and start working through the issue. Because at its core, an argument isn’t just about the disagreement—it’s a window into what the other person is struggling with.
For times when we might feel belittled in a conversation, or if we’re speaking to someone who’s defensive or who challenges our boundaries, how do we stay self-assured and respectful?
When someone disrespects you, setting a boundary is about protecting your values, not attacking theirs. It’s not about being rude, it’s about being clear. For example, saying, “I don’t accept being spoken to that way,” isn’t an insult—it’s a statement of your standard. Respecting yourself doesn’t mean you’re disrespecting them, it just means you’re not letting their behavior dictate your worth. Instead of saying “Don’t yell at me!” use “I don’t respond to that volume.”
You write about a tactic in your book that works if you feel disrespected. Can you explain the “comebacks” that shut down disrespect while also keeping your integrity intact?
Here are some of my favorites when someone is trying to get satisfaction from saying something disrespectful or rude:
First, ask “How do you feel when you say that?” It forces reflection.
Second, say “I’m surprised you said that out loud.” This often makes them reconsider their words.
And my favorite: “Did you mean for that to sound rude?” It gives them a chance to clarify or backpedal without escalating things.
The communication skills on display among our government leaders are pretty terrible right now. What’s your assessment of what we’re seeing on the political stage—and how would you like to see our elected representatives do better?
What I see from many leaders, government or not, is a pattern of listening to respond rather than listening to understand. Instead of asking questions that encourage dialogue, they focus on only pushing their own point. They have the goal to dominate rather than discuss.
It’s become a zero-sum game, where winning matters more than working together and where they care less about what’s said and more about who’s watching. Real leadership brings more people into the conversation, not pushes them out of it.
Jefferson Fisher is a trial lawyer, writer, and speaker whose work to help people communicate during life’s everyday arguments and conversations, with his practical videos and authentic presence, has gained millions of followers around the world, including celebrities and global leaders. He lives with his wife and two children near Beaumont, Texas.
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