The Conversations We Keep Putting Off
Christina Wing has a question she likes to ask at dinner parties:
“Do people want to be buried or cremated?”
The question, she knows, is not exactly typical small talk—but that’s precisely the point. Wing, a professor at Harvard Business School and founder of Wingspan, which advises family businesses on relationships, says the subjects people avoid discussing are often the ones that matter most.
The conversation about cremation vs burial vs composting (an option she learned about at a dinner party) is really a conversation about agency, she says—understanding what you want, making your wishes known and ensuring that someone else does not make those decisions for you.
In her new book, Unspeakable: The Taboo Topics We Avoid and How to Talk About Them, Wing walks readers through the really touchy topics—money, death, religion and politics—and how avoiding these conversations has consequences, from family estrangement to financial instability.
For example, she writes about a widow in her 50s who hadn’t reviewed her estate plan with her husband. He was worth a billion dollars when he died 15 years ago. It still hasn’t been resolved.
“There’s a thing I do with the families I work with, where I give out index cards and ask them ‘What’s your net worth?’” Wing says. “And almost every time, women know about 10 percent of their net worth.”
From her home outside Boston, with her dog listening patiently nearby, Wing gave advice on starting difficult conversations, and why it’s particularly important for women to speak up for themselves and reach out to each other.
A CONVERSATION WITH CHRISTINA WING
How did you start researching taboo subjects?
I didn’t come up with this as an area to research. My work led to this being a topic that needs to be discussed. My research is in family businesses, and when you get to the core of it, all of these issues are part of the reason families have trouble and don’t succeed through the generations.
Then I started to see it in my own life with my own kids, with my own friends, and with my students. I was like, “What the ##% is going on?” I’m 55, and when I was little, we didn’t talk about politics and religion. Now you can barely talk about anything without somebody looking at you sideways.
I’ve seen it in the last 10 years in my classroom. Ten years ago, we would talk about a lot more. Now people are paralyzed.
How did you start researching taboo subjects?
I have changed my language to start with, “What’s our goal?” What’s the common goal?
My colleagues and I have a common goal of educating our students. If we’re having a meeting on something, I’m always like, “What’s the goal? Because if we don’t have a common goal, we’re not going to focus on the right issues to actually solve the problem.”
It’s not me being argumentative or throwing it all out on the table. It addresses the fact that people can have differences of opinion, but if we have a common goal, we should listen to each other and come up with the best answer. I do this with everyone now.
What taboo subjects come up at work, particularly for women?
Women, especially women over 50, shy away from talking about ambition, and they tie their whole net worth up in their salary. But they need to change the narrative. Typically, women have gone in and said, “I deserve more.”
Instead, they should say, “Last year I hit these targets, and this year I accomplished this goal, and I’m expecting a raise.” They have to advocate for themselves.
The second issue that comes up around work is when we lose jobs. I have a lot of friends who lost their jobs during the last four years and they hide it from everybody. They’ll say “Oh, I’m taking time off. Oh, I’m transitioning to something new.”
When really, they are struggling, they can’t get an interview. But they don’t come and say, “Christina, I don’t have a job and I really want one. Would you help me?” I work with a million companies, and each of these women would be better than most of the people in those companies. But they don’t ask me directly.
They talk to somebody else, asking, “Do you think Christina would do this?” Then six months go by before I finally get on the phone, and I’m asking “Why didn’t you tell me? I could help you.”
Women have to start helping women, and they can only do that if we’re direct and ask for help.
We’re in a political season. Are people more reluctant to talk about politics now?
Yes, and it's gotten worse in the last decade. In the past, people disagreed at the dinner table and agreed to disagree—but we discussed issues not personal character or emotions and moved on. Now we treat a political opinion as a verdict on someone's character, so the safer move is to say nothing making the cost real.
Avoidance doesn't make the disagreement go away. It just means you don't understand the other side anymore. I wrote Unspeakable because the topics we avoid prevent education, compassion, and progress.
Discussing politics is about learning what people care about and why—not about winning a discussion. When we take a minute, many of us have common goals: safety for our kids, job security, access to education, dignity in old age, a country that works. We might disagree on the route, and we've confused that with disagreeing on the destination. Start with the destination and the conversation gets a lot easier.
Just start talking, normalize it—we must start somewhere or the silence is filled with perceptions.
People seem to shy away from talking about issues in friendships as well as in families. How do you talk about being lonely?
The thing about loneliness is I think a lot of people are lonely because of social media, and they think everyone in their life is doing and having more fun. A lot of people who post all the time actually aren’t having that much fun. You have to realize that those authentic times matter.
For someone who feels left out, change the narrative. Ask somebody to go for a walk. Psychologists have studied this because you’re walking side by side and not looking at each other. You feel more comfortable expressing your feelings because it’s not like this face-to-face confrontation.
Most vulnerabilities among friends come out on walks side by side, not looking at each other. Think of how many times you’ve gone for a walk and told somebody your deepest, darkest secret. It just feels safer.
I’d also say you don’t know happiness unless you know low, and we all are lonely at different times. You can be very lonely and never alone.
Money is definitely a touchy subject. Why is it so important for women?
We need to talk about money, and the approach to financial literacy really needs to change because otherwise, people are going to get screwed if they get a divorce or they’re going to get screwed if someone dies and they have to take on the finances.
Some women who haven’t worked in finance don’t understand their investments or even what “assets under management” means in their statements. They’re afraid to ask their partners or wealth managers. Financial literacy needs to change because otherwise women can be in trouble if they divorce or their partners die.
Estate planners often direct their questions to men, even when the woman made all the money. The woman agrees, the plan gets done, and they never revisit it. I want every woman to be able to explain her estate plan in two sentences.
I’m saying to everyone: If you get anything out of my book, know your estate plan and tell somebody you love what you want done. Because otherwise, that knucklehead who leaves the seat up, who doesn’t refill the toilet paper, that’s who is going to decide where to bury you.
So women need to advocate for themselves, they need to educate themselves and each other. And most importantly, they need to ask for help when they need it, and not shy away.
What five rules would you offer women over 50?
- Advocate for yourself. Speak openly about your goals, accomplishments and needs.
- Educate yourself about finances. Ask questions until you understand your money and investments.
- Participate in estate planning. Know what your plan says and communicate your wishes to someone you trust.
- Communicate with family and friends about difficult subjects. Talk about religion, politics and other issues instead of assuming they’re off limits; use those conversations to educate one another.
- Don’t be afraid of not looking perfect. Let go of the need to have everything appear effortless. Honest conversations can be uncomfortable, but avoiding them can cost you connection, opportunity and control over your own life.
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